A wild flatmate appears!

[oanja]

(sorry for the vague Pokemon reference) But yeah the flatmate is here, says though that she will be gone again tomorrow. Best kind of flatmate to have in other words. Even if it's terribly awkward trying to talk with her when she's here.

In other news, I went to see my thesis advisor thingy... (not sure what the proper title would be [and I'm annoyed that LJ doesn't think advisor is a word!]) on Wednesday and she was all: 'so do you want to continue with your previous thesis topic?' And I was kind of struck by this sudden freedom of actually being allowed to change my mind about this. ^^; So I wasn't making much sense when she was trying to ask me what I would like to research instead. /0\ So after I left her office I went straight into the library and got about ten books. I already have a few ideas about what I'd like to do, but I have to look into it a bit more. Make sure a million other people haven't already done it a lot better than I ever could. However, I have quite set my eyes on the Victorian period and I'd like to do something about new men's history (which is kind of like women's history but about men... xD) because there is this awesome book by John Tosh called: A Man's Place - Masculinity and the Middle-class Home in Victorian England and I kind of love the topic more than I should. So what we can gather from this is that I will never get my masters degree done this semester...

And I kind of want to change my moodtheme again but it's so much work and I have too many options.

Comments

[messy-kisses.livejournal.com]

Lol, se on aina hämmentävää, kun saa ite päättää jotain opintoihinsa liittyvää! XD Mutta aihe kuulostaa hyvin kiintoisalta ja eihän se ole mikään maailmanloppu jos et saa sitä nyt valmiiksi, vai onko?

[oanja.livejournal.com]

No on! Hyvin hämmentävää... =D Ja joo tuntuu paljon kivemmalta jo nyt ajatella sitä tutkimuksen tekoa, vaikka ei mulla olekaan valmista tutkimusaihetta vielä. Mut joo se aborttihomman kävi liikaa hermoille, aina tuli kauheen pahalle tuulelle kun asiaa selvitti. xD

No ei sinällään, jos vaan saan kaikki muut opinnot tehtyä, eli ois sit vaan gradu tekemättä, mut joo ois ollu kiva valmistuakin jossain aikataulussa. ^^;

[nerakrose]

i want to hear more about that topic! it sounds all kinds of awesome :D (well, like something i'd do, except i can't because it doesnt' fit in with my field of studies XD)

[oanja.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you will hear more about it than you would have wanted to, 'cause I'm bound to ramble about my topic quite regularly once I start working on it. But yeah I really like gender history and looking at how society (patriarchy) placed a lot of constraints on men too and not just women. (not that I'm saying women didn't have a pretty shitty deal most of the time)

...and there I go already. x)

But yeah might not go so well with language studies/linguistics/translation studies (not sure which is your field, sorry ^^;)

[nerakrose]

yes to all that :D generally i'm more interested in men's place in society - i blame it on the feminism, actually. i'm sick and tired of feminism and all that crap that comes with it - i want to see the other side of the coin. and tbh? i think the feminism "ruined" a lot for men... <.<

all three combined, pretty much XD

[oanja.livejournal.com]

If one is interested in history before the 20th century there aren't that many interesting women or women in general doing interesting things. This is why I like 'traditional' history more than 'women's history' but in general gender history is really cool. It's really interesting to look at men from the gender viewpoint, for so long women had gender, men just were.

But I do like certain kinds of Feminism and I'm kind of curious about what you mean by feminism ruining a lot for men? ^^

[nerakrose]

iunno how well you can read danish with what knowledge you have of swedish, but i wrote a blog post about it ages ago.

in short what it says (and what i think) is: i think feminism has 'ruined' men in the sense that they're raised with feminine values - it's okay to cry, it's okay to cuddle babies, it's okay to do a lot of things that used to be a woman's thing, while the woman is raised with it's okay to be strong, it's okay to be strict, etc. the gender roles have been switched. men have become too soft.
i mention in the blogpost that women have a lot of races for women's causes - men don't. there was one race made, an obstacle course through mud and shit and afterwards there was beer and sausages. wow, so badass, hm?
there's also the fact that a lot more women get through the education system because everyone and their mother runs to their aid, because 'otherwise they get overlooked and it's so important to help them be strong and blah blah' while no one gives a fuck about the men. and the fact they have difficulties to begin with? - they were raised with 'it's okay to give up'. uhm, no. you're a man, you're strong, you're badass, you're not going to bloody give up just because "it's okay to be a softie". wtf.

i'm not saying that men shouldn't cry or cuddle their babies, i'm just pointing out general tendencies that give a big picture overall. it's so obvious, really, how the genders have sort of been reversed.

Long reply is long

[oanja.livejournal.com]

Well sadly it's not really good enough for reading... like anything harder than textbooks or childrens stories, especially without a dictionary, so I'm glad you summarized your points in English. =D

First of all it's really cool to hear opinions like this, 'cause I haven't really seem anything quite like it, especially from a woman. Even if I disagree with some of your opinions and ask questions please don't think I'm trying to say you can't be right or that you shouldn't think that way. I just like to debate these things. ^^

So do you think in general that being 'soft and/or feminine' is a bad quality to have, regardless of gender? Or is it only bad for men? Do you think women should still carry the soft motherly aspects if you are saying that men shouldn't? Do you want gender roles to go back to what they were, let's say in the 19th century?
It seems that you are putting value in being soft (feminine) or tough (masculine) and soft comes out worse. This is interesting because many feminist theories attribute that for patriarchy and how if a man shows any signs that he is soft/feminine his worth as a man dwindle automatically. For men being feminine is always a bad thing, something that will make them fall in the hierarchy of men. When they aren't aspiring towards the ideal manliness or 'hegemonic masculinity'
This is why men can't (for example) wear skirts or openly show affection (especially towards other men) by physical gestures (hugs kisses) or words. (there are of course exceptions to this rule, but in general you cannot show 'feminine qualities' without losing face among other men. (being called a fag might be the most common effect))

What kind of men's causes would you like there to be? Also I don't think we have many of those here (in Finland I mean) for women either. I can think of one and it's just a competition for women joggers... I think they might have something to do with breast cancer awareness or something. (but I might be wrong about this, I don't really follow that kind of news)

Also what kind of aid are you talking about here? I don't think we have any special help for female students in Finland and actually recently it's been in the news a lot that some boys are having difficulties in school and what could be done about this. Also people are kind of worried about how in higher education women are beginning to be the majority in some fields. Which I personally resent. Like why is it completely okay and normal for men to be the majority in practically anything but as soon as it seems like women are doing well in something and outstepping men that is automatically alarming and people start to question what is wrong with either education/men/society. Like it's so abnormal for women to be better at something than men. *grr* (and sorry I didn't mean to just start ranting)

And in a completely personal note at your last paragraph. I pretty much like the idea of gender roles being reversed... xD I'm all for the subjugation of men. ^_^;

But more seriously. I think the problem is that gender roles are so tightly defined and regulated. What I would like to see happen would be that you could just be an individual and act out your gender in the way that seems natural to you, without people saying that 'you aren't a proper man/woman for acting/doing that!' I don't like the idea that people couldn't do something just because people don't think it's appropriate for their gender.

Re: Long reply is long

[nerakrose]

ohgod, i think i'm too hungover to deal with things like these XD my brain's fried. <.<

So do you think in general that being 'soft and/or feminine' is a bad quality to have, regardless of gender? Or is it only bad for men? Do you think women should still carry the soft motherly aspects if you are saying that men shouldn't? Do you want gender roles to go back to what they were, let's say in the 19th century?
It seems that you are putting value in being soft (feminine) or tough (masculine) and soft comes out worse.
- no, it's not bad to be soft or have feminine qualities
- it's not bad for men per se to have these qualities, as everyone has them. the point is rather that it's been cultivated to such a degree that men have become sissies. i'm not sure how comfortable i would be with a man that cries like a baby at chick flicks, for example.
- no, i don't want gender roles to switch back. gender isn't a constant and neither are gender roles and i think it's good that they develop and that issues are addressed.
- i'm not sure, honestly. it probably seems so. i think my point is rather that because of feminism, men aren't "allowed" to boost themselves, boast, be open about masculine things and such, and aren't "allowed" to raise their voice if there's something unfair for them - because as soon as they do, there'll be a horde of feminists getting pissy and start using arguments such as 'don't take anything away from US we've fought for it' and 'that's such a male-chauvinistic thing to say/do' etc. it's sad to see that if men's causes need to get heard, they need women to voice them because the men simply won't be heard. (there'd still be a horde of feminists getting pissy, only in this scenario the arguments would be 'GASP TRAITOR' and similar).

What kind of men's causes would you like there to be?
- for example cancer awareness things. i think the whole breast cancer awareness campaign has gotten a bit over the top, to be honest. and i even know a fair few women who have had breast cancer. why isn't there the same kind of campaigns for prostate cancer? or testicle cancer? why is it all about breast and cervical cancer?

Also what kind of aid are you talking about here?
- i realise not all countries are the same, but over here: for example if you're a female student and get pregnant, you get ALL sorts of help. more student grant, children check, a social worker assigned to you to support you, the university will give you maternity leave without kicking you out our making it impossible for you to receive students grants, etc. but if a male student becomes a father? all he gets is a little bit more money per month. it's about a 1/3 of the extra that the woman gets. he doesn't even get paternity leave. how is that fair?
- another case: a girl struggles with high school. she's tired, worn out, can't summon the energy to do simple things like finishing an essay. after a few weeks the school notices and calls her in for an interview, they ask what's wrong, what's the situation, what caused it. they work out some solution - perhaps they convince her to quit her student job, perhaps they make a deal; if she writes two out of the 9 assignments she's behind on, she won't be kicked out/otherwise punished, etc. there'll be kept an eye on her. now, at the same school, a boy has the same problems. he also gets called in for an interview, but he's told to get his act together or he'll get kicked out. why isn't HE getting the same support? again, i do believe this is feminism's fault, because of the whole 'women are oppressed and weak and must be helped so they can be made strong, men are already strong and need no help, they need to be faught in order for women to attain the same status'- thing.

tbc in next comment

Re: Long reply is long

[nerakrose]

....

what it all boils down to, really, is not that i'm an anti-feminist. i'm neither a feminist nor an anti-feminist. i just think that some things have gotten a bit out of hand. i don't believe in equal rights for women - why? because women already have more than equal rights. they outnumber men in many fields and in many business and sectors there are quotas that were put down to ensure that enough women get hired to do certain jobs. women might still not get exactly the same in pay per month as a man in the same job, but honestly - a woman *is* away from the job more and can be more unreliable in terms of illness, as they get babies, they might get really sick from period cramps, they have to stay at home with ill children, etc. (i do know many fathers also stay at home with ill children, but it still is a thing mainly women do).
it's about time that we start thinking about equal rights for men.

What I would like to see happen would be that you could just be an individual and act out your gender in the way that seems natural to you, without people saying that 'you aren't a proper man/woman for acting/doing that!' I don't like the idea that people couldn't do something just because people don't think it's appropriate for their gender.
THIS. i think it's up to oneself what to do and how to do it, but society just doesn't work like that (yet). which is why i think it's so important to address the issues i mentioned in this comment.

Long reply is still long

[oanja.livejournal.com]

-Not really the point or anything but do people cry at chick-flicks? Aren't they usually romantic comedies? Just speaking from personal experience but if I cry because of a film it's usually a war movie or something. ^^ You said at the end that you think people should be allowed to determine what kind of a man/woman they are but still you call men who have 'embraced' aspects of the 'feminine' sissies, which is kind of judgemental and... well basically defeats the point of you saying it should be okay to be yourself.
- So what kind of things or areas do you think men are treated unfairly and aren't allowed to express themselves? To be honest I can't think of any.

-I agree about the breast cancer thing with you, it has gotten out of hand with those weird pink things you see everywhere (and that was stolen from the AIDS awareness people) I don't see why it's necessary to keep talking about it so much. At least here every woman gets a letter from their local emergency room when they turn 40 that asks them to come and have their breasts checked just in case. I think that's plenty. But at the same time in Finland Breast cancer is the leading cause of death for working age women. For men the causes are: alcohol related issues, heart diseases, accidents, suicides and then lung cancer... So I don't see how cancer awareness for men would be really necessary when the only cancer is really self inflicted by smoking and there is a lot of anti smoking campaigns already, same goes for alcohol and eating healthily. The only thing that would need more campaigning would be some kind of program for helping people not to kill themselves. ([It's the fourth most common cause of death for both men and women] dunno how that would work though... have more shrinks? therapy?)

-You have weird benefits over there. Just from making a quick google search it seems that if you have a kid while studying you don't get any extra money from student benefits (also if you get student benefits you must actually study normally wheather you have a baby or not) so usually a woman would report herself absent from school to save up the student benefits (you only have 60 moths worth) and then you just get the maternity money (or what ever it's called in English) which is about the same amount as the student benefit because you don't have a job. I don't think the father get's any money here.
- The same goes for that school example. We don't have anything like that here. Or at least we didn't when I was in school and I've never heard of such. Here I think they would make you repeat the year if you aren't passing your classes or they would tell you to maybe go to a vocational school no matter your gender.
--> I think both of these examples are really weird and not about equal rights so I can see why people would be annoyed by them... =/

-I wouldn't say that women are better off than men, at least not in Finland, but maybe things really are like that I Denmark. Here the quotas work both ways, it's just said that there must be about equal number of sexes in plaxe X for example. (I think the numbers need to be 60-40) And I really don't agree with you on women being more unreliable workers just because they are women. And if they have to stay at home to take care of sick children more than men do that is as much the fathers fault who are not taking equal responsibility for the children as the mother.
- The only place where I am willing to admit that women have better rights than men is when a couple gets divorced and usually the children go to the mother. Here men have a hard time getting their voices heard, but at the same time, if the mother has been the one who is the primary caregiver (like stays at home when the kid is sick, feeds then, plays with them etc) then I don't see why the father should get the kids if he hasn't bothered to take care of them so far.

[arilyn9.livejournal.com]

Oooh your new topic sounds so interesting! I hope you find a more specific one and can get to work on it :)
Ahh I'm almost envious, as it seems like I can't get anything done regarding my lesser study thingy, and it seemed like I was boring the hell out of my fellow students yesterday :D Is this oppressive feeling the famous 'hardness of doing history' like Hyrkkänen says. >.<;

Ooh you did change your mood theme! Looks really good :) You went from war to victorian romance :D I like the spectrum of things you like ^_~

[oanja.livejournal.com]

I'm kinda excited about it. \0/ =D Now I just need to narrow it down to something specific.
What do you mean by 'lesser study thingy'? Your minors? What kind of speech did you give? And don't mind the others if they don't seem very interested. I think it goes with the territory when you have classes with people from all kinds of field. Can't please everyone.

Yep, I like it a lot, but let's see when I'll be changing it again. ^^; And yeah my interests are very wide and varied. =D

[arilyn9.livejournal.com]

Ah and that is always the hardest part :D
I just don't know english. Tarkoitin proseminaaria. Ja eilen oli tosiaan tutkimussuunnitelman esitteleminen ja jäi vähän paha maku suuhun siitä yleisesti ottaen mutta ehkä se tästä.

Well it is there for now :) And that is in no way a bad thing :D