This and that

[oanja]

I went to Tampere this past weekend for the UN student meeting thing about sustainable development. It was pretty cool. Also hung out with arilyn9 and sherg I'm kind of super jealous you get to live in one of my favourite cities. *pout*

Yesh, managed to finish one assignment for school. Two to go. Sadly the one I finished was the easiest... bummer. Still I have two days for the small thesis one and then two more days before the essay is due. Totally doable, hopefully *fingers crossed*

This wouldn't be such a problem if I didn't have the strongest urge to start a new fic. I want to write about how Phil and Amanda Kessel swap bodies and how that makes them evaluate their lives. Mostly I just want Amanda to get to play in the NHL and for Phil to pine after Tyler and wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just stay swapped so they could be together. And demand they send Stella to wherever Amanda is training for the Olympics and accidentally start rumors about Amanda and Tyler dating, which would not amuse Amanda, who would end up seeming like the over protective big brother. And for both of them to have body dysmorphia issues because they are cis people.

About real hockey... the Wild have been playing pretty well lately, yay! They have won the last 7 out of 8 games. They have a four game road trip that starts tonight though, so I'm a bit worried. They haven't been great on the road this season. Still let's enjoy the fact that they are second in the Central division right now, only two points behind the Hawks. (and let's ignore how the Avs and Blues have played two games less)

Also there are 8 teams in the West who have as many or more points than the first team in the East. Wow, just wow.

I got new books while I was visiting arilyn9. I just love that one used book store there... This time I got 7 new (to me) books. I'm super excited about my expanding collection of the Culture novels. I don't think I'm missing many anymore. Then, when I got back home I found the books I ordered from bookdepository had finally arrived. Those are the Patrick O'Brian books. The covers are so pretty!

Comments

[bestliars.livejournal.com]

your idea for Kessel fic sounds fantastic.

And oh god, the Wild's game tonight was so painful. Everything was terrible. Like, actually, everything. Ugh. But hopefully they can bounce back in Ottawa and stay good, or at least be better than tonight, not that that's saying much.

[oanja.livejournal.com]

Body swap fics are kind of problematic on their own and I feel kind of dubious about bringing Amanda into it, but I just like the idea... ^_^;

Yeah it was so so terrible. Nothing was going right for them. Hopefully this won't be a start of a long losing streak. I mean they already fell to fourth in the division and that was just one game. Uh oh...

[biggersandwich.livejournal.com]

Books! \o/

The Kessel fic sounds neat! The family angle is unusual, and I'd love to see how that would play out and if it would make things more familiar, or even weirder, because they are very similar physically, but also it might be more personal insight into your siblings than you really need. Really nice and chewy.

[oanja.livejournal.com]

Books are the best, even if I already have way too many I haven't even read.

Yeah, I don't think I've seen one like this, I may be wrong but it's almost always people swapping inside the same 'sex'. I would think it would make things even weirder, I don't think a lot of people would like to get too familiar with their siblings bodies, especially private parts... If I ever get to it, I think it will be a lot of fun to write and come up with all kinds of things they would have to deal with. Good and bad. ^_^;

[biggersandwich.livejournal.com]

But that's just the natural state of books, surely!

Yeah, I think so, or opposite sex ones are usually romantic ships where it's not as weird to want to touch the other person's body. It makes it especially interesting if Phil does have occasional painful thoughts about how this would make it easier to pine for Bozie: I love that kind of tension.

[oanja.livejournal.com]

That's true, they do happen in movies and other more mainstream media. But yeah, it would be a good opportunity to look at the situation between Phil and Bozie from that perspective and for Amanda, maybe she'd be willing to stay a man to get to play hockey in the NHL. But I would swap them back though, with lessons learned (or something... ^_^)

[biggersandwich.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd rather they swapped back at the end because I don't think the bonuses of it would outweigh the dysmorphia/dislocation issues, but they would definitely be fun to read about! Especially when they both can see advantages. (Think how much Phil would enjoy the media being virtually uninterested in him!)

[oanja.livejournal.com]

Yes, I don't think they could be happy in the wrong body. (this is a thing that annoys me when people write fic where a character's 'sex' changes and they are always pretty much okay with it and usually end up having sex, sometimes a lot of sex. I mean it's not such a popular trope in the Hockey fandom as it has been in other fandom's I've been in, but still.)

I think that would be a big draw for Phil, haha, poor guy. He genuinely seems rather introverted sometimes.

[biggersandwich.livejournal.com]

Heh, I will cop to enjoying and also writing exactly that kind of sexswap, but I agree that it's not exactly realistic. I usually mentally handwave it as being the effect of shock/curiosity carrying them through a couple days of fucking. In my head, they would freak out more if they were stuck in the wrong body for weeks, but it never gets that far, so they're still in "wow, different and interesting genitalia!" mode when they get turned back and never have a chance to fully believe that they won't get it reversed.

Yup, which you'd think a hockey media obsessed with humility would love, but apparently not. (Otoh, he'd loathe being in public as a hot girl. All that direct attention from strangers! 0_0)

[oanja.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've enjoyed the trope too, I mean it works as a short pwp type of thing or if the topic is used more for humor than anything else. Idk, for some reason it's just hard for me to imagine if a man suddenly had a woman's body that he'd be comfortable having sex in it. Or having orgasms from getting fucked. ((ignoring the whole conversation here as to what constitutes a woman's body and all the real trans issues)) Aaaannywayy...

The model for the perfect hockey player in the media's eye is very narrow, that's for sure. But seriously are you reading my mind about the things I would love to write about it the fic? :D He would be all, "Amanda people keep hitting on me! What am I supposed to do? Also people get into my personal space, make it stop." etc.

[biggersandwich.livejournal.com]

I definitely see your point! Certainly if the fic begins to treat it seriously, then it gets REALLY weird if it goes back to everyone having happy sex, but if it stays light all the way through, I don't mind. The comfort...depends a lot on the person? I can handwave a guy who was comfortable being fucked already being interested in being fucked a different way, whereas fic where very straight guys are suddenly interested in dick bc they have vaginas is much weirder. And the sexual responses of someone going "huh, let's see what I can do with this body" would probably be less tentative than someone who was freaking out more. So it's all in how things start off and what kinds of little hints we get for me. (Eugh, language is positively the worst for this! But yeah, this is all something entirely different from trans experience, and very difficult to talk about without making it seem horrendously gender essentialist. /o\)

Narrow and self-contradicting and mad. I just boggle at them, really. You should write about all these things because it would be great! :D He'd be so unhappy about that, especially when Amanda is being pleased that people actually leave her alone when she's quiet as Phil. I just really love the idea of them both being quietly unhappy in the wrong bodies, and also because they mostly see the bits of the other person's experience that are less bad. (Er, I see them as loving, but not very good at having in depth conversations? More comfortable talking about how no one stares at "Phil's" nonexistent tits and it's great!!! than how it's creepingly off.) Does that sound cruel, haha? I just think it would be so chewy!

[oanja.livejournal.com]

Yes, like with most things it really depends on the writer and how they make things work. I've read good stories in this genre, I'm definitely not saying that. It's true though, that the whole trope can very easily slide into gender essentialism if the writer isn't careful. It's a problematic topic and it's kind of the reason I feel a bit wary about writing this story...

I think the press might like Amanda-as-Phil better than normal Phil, as she seems more confident etc. I was thinking that Phil-as-Amanda would be really weirded out by her body and like always wear tight sports brass, trying to flatten her breasts out of existence. I think it would be harder for Phil than for Amanda (from a societal perspective at least, I'm not saying she'd feel comfortable in a strange body)

I read this one interview about Amanda (when I was researching a bit...) and she told how they have a ping-pong tournament in their house and she won this one time and even though she tried not to rub it in on Phil he still got mad and chased her around the house for five minutes! So yeah, I don't know if they really are the type to have heart to heart conversations. But maybe the whole body swap thing would also help them grow closer.

[biggersandwich.livejournal.com]

Oh, definitely, I didn't think you were critiquing the whole concept, just talking about the ways I make it work in my head. I think you could do it though, because you're so concerned about getting it right. And it is a bit easier to talk about these things in characters' heads because 'woman's body' can mean a lot of things in an abstract discussion, but when it's in Phil's sexswap POV, it's clearer that he means "this body here which I feel is Not Mine and is in some way female"? So it's not totally non-gender essentialist, but it doesn't completely discount transwomen's bodies, even if they're not explicitly mentioned, because it's more specific.

True, though I think she's also fairly quiet and I'm not sure what comes across as quiet, but confident for a woman would have the same effect in a man. I think it's more that it would be more obvious that Phil was uncomfortable, because Amanda hiding in a bunch of layers is no worse than Phil usually dresses. And the social cachet she gained would help a lot with the awkwardness, though it would probably be intensely frustrating to be every second reminded that she's never going to get to be in a league this well equipped and that sort of thing.

Hee, that's great. Phil does always seem terribly proud of her, but not like he'd be good at expressing that, or anything else, verbally. Possibly even after being bodyswapped, though it would probably make their elliptical and joke-deflection-heavy conversations more significant? ;)

[oanja.livejournal.com]

Good points about all the things, but especially about what Amanda is like and how that might not translate with him in Phil's body. I wonder about her, like how can you not feel bitter sometimes with your brother getting the money and fame (wanted or not) for something she loves just as much. Just because she's a woman and there isn't the same opportunities for female hockey players.

Do you happen to have any links about the two of them, or can you point me to some vaguely right direction? I'm always looking for help in these kinds of situations as I generally have terrible google-fu and because I haven't paid much attention to the Leafs (and the Kessels as an extension) before this season.

[biggersandwich.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's got to be weird when she can see it right up close and also know that the best she's likely to get is an unpaid spot in the CWHL. And it's weird to me how he's so proud and says she's a better hockey player than he is, but he doesn't seem to be doing anything with women's hockey, which he certainly has the money to help out with.

Oh dear, I don't know much, I'm afraid, and I'm awful at saving links. There's this more general women's hockey primer (http://pineapplechild.dreamwidth.org/2013/08/20/womens-hockey-primer.html) which has some things about her, and I think the author of that (@klreeher on twitter) and impertinence/@stopthatimp on twitter/tumblr have posted stuff about her before? I don't know if that helps much, sorry. There might be some stuff on hockeypedia?

[oanja.livejournal.com]

Yeah that part is weird. I wonder why he won't put some money and effort into it.

Thank you for the links, they are definitely more than what I had previously. :D I appreciate the help, especially because I'm really bad at saving links too...

(sorry it took me ages to reply, I've been swamped in school work)

[biggersandwich.livejournal.com]

I'd guess he doesn't think about it a lot and Title IX (I think that's the US laws re: universities having to put equal money into men's and women's sports?) means that it's not an issue for Amanda right now, so while I'm sure she's well aware that her future options are slim, he probably doesn't have to be as conscious of it.

You're welcome! Hope it helps; I really like the idea of this fic!

(No worries! Life happens.)